Tracy Young: Welcome to Path to Growth. I'm Tracy Young, co founder and CEO of TigerEye. Today we are joined by Stevie Kaye, CRO at Vanta, to discuss all things growth. Stevie, welcome. Thank you. So happy to be here. So Stevie, why don't we start with you just telling us about your childhood. Tell me about mom and dad and what you learned from them.

Stevie Case: I love it. We're going deep to start. It's great. My mom and dad are one amazing people and in very different lines of work than I am. So I grew up in Kansas city area. So I grew up actually on this 300 acre plot of prairie. So very little house on the prairie. My dad was a biologist. And a teacher, he taught in public school, and we lived on this plot of land in this old stone house that was built in the 1930s in Kansas.

And we lived there because my dad was trying to help preserve [00:01:00] this original piece of prairie that had never been plowed under. So he was both the caretaker for the land and also was fundraising to try to protect it so it would never be developed. So we spent this I had this incredible childhood.

I have a younger brother outside, on the land. My dad ran summer camp, so I spent all of this time just running around in nature. And Dad was in that line of work. Mom was a nurse and then a social worker. Both parents, extremely idealistic. Definitely different lines of work than I am in today.

Tracy Young: It's it sounds so beautiful. Did you get to just run free on this 300 acres? So it must be so different than how you raised your daughter in I'm assuming the city. It is.

Stevie Case: Yeah. I just giggle sometimes because her life and her context is so completely different. It was incredible. Yeah. It was totally free to just be out there and run around and, we camped and [00:02:00] we fished and we like went out hunting bullfrogs at night.

And it was like a very rural existence. And I did live suburbs of Kansas city, so I wasn't all that far. From a real city. I was probably 45 minutes outside of Kansas City, and I lived in a town that, at the time, maybe like 40, 50, 000 people, so it wasn't tiny, but I was on the outskirts of that, and it was just magical, I got to Work at this camp all summer, every summer. That's what I did. My first job was working at my dad's summer camp. We had all these animals out in a barn. So we had snakes and lizards and everything you could imagine. Prairie dogs pythons. It was wild. My dad was also the guy who, if an animal was ever injured in town, they would just Bring that animal to our house.

So there are pictures of me as a very young child holding like a raccoon and like a 30 foot Python. So I had a somewhat unique [00:03:00] upbringing.

Tracy Young: Yeah. Local teacher and local part time vet. It sounds oh yeah. Oh yeah. So Banta recently raised a real big round, 150 million series C. And it was so inspiring for me to read the news because you guys are led by a female CEO and a female CRO.

And it's just, that's just rare to see, that success and those types of numbers coming from a woman led business. So congratulations. You joined Vanta in 2022 as the company's first chief revenue officer, and you also bring over two decades of sales and business development experience to the role, previously serving as vice president of mid market sales at Twilio.

How do you explain what you do to your kid? Like, how would you explain what you do to a five year old?

Stevie Case: Yeah, the simplest explanation is my job is to make sure the company makes money and to expand on that just slightly. And this is how I often explain it to [00:04:00] my family. Many of whom are not in any kind of related industry and haven't been in tech is my job is to just make sure we grow to serve our customers well.

To ensure that we're providing a great customer experience. So customers want to continue doing business with us. And I really do view it as that simple. Most days, there's a lot of detail under the covers. There are mathematical models. There's a lot of work to be done, but ultimately it's really just about serving customers well and offering them a product that solves real problems.

Tracy Young: I want to talk about Kill Creek. I've so been so excited for this interview. So you are famously known for competing in the first person shooter game Quake in the late 1990s, as well as professionally, contributing to the video game industry. So you've beaten a lot of other famous gamers, most of them males, and you're one of the first notable female esports players.

You've also candidly shared the darker side of the gaming industry. How do you think [00:05:00] those experiences impacted? Your career and leadership style today.

Stevie Case: The whole experience of being in the video game industry was super formative for me. That was really my initial set of professional experiences.

And I would put professional in quotes. It was unique and it was almost entirely male. So I was the world's first female professional gamer. And I got. Sponsorships and I got paid to play and it all happened because I ended up beating the guy who made Doom and Quake at his own game and it was just this like unintended series of events that took me from being pre law and wanting to be a lawyer and studying to do that.

To this track where I dropped out of college, I played games professionally, and then I started making games. So once I moved into making games, that was really where I saw what it was like to work [00:06:00] inside a company. And, I hustled so hard to get into that industry because even though I was known as a player, I didn't have any experience making games.

So I, I did quality assurance work. I was like the lowest paid person at the first. Game company I worked for lower paid than the front person working the front desk. Like I would do anything. And I was just willing to put in that hustle. And I think what it set in my mind was that I just got very used to being the outlier.

You talked about how unique Vanta is. We've got, female CEO, I'm on the leadership team. We have a female chief information security officer as well. We've got a lot of female leadership, but the truth is we don't talk about it. And it's a non issue. It's not a thing. And honestly, that is so novel to me and I'm really grateful for it because I spent the first half of my career being almost [00:07:00] exclusively the only woman in the So to be in an environment where.

You don't even have to think about that because it's not an issue that ever comes up is pretty incredible and very different. So I know you guys don't talk about it, but you do have a different looking executive team, and I'm so proud of Christina for recruiting all of you guys. It must be different.

Tracy Young: I guess we're only comparing a handful of companies. All very successful, but there must be a difference between Vanta's culture because there's so many women making decisions than your previous companies. Can you share how that looks like?

Stevie Case: Yeah, I think it's yes and no I started to see that there was something different that was possible with first actually a male CEO who just was a thoughtful human being.

I was very lucky to be at Twilio [00:08:00] during an incredible run and Jeff Lawson was the CEO of that company. An incredible human being, like a thoughtful, smart, kind human being, in addition to being just this incredible leader. And that was one of the first places I ever worked where I felt like gender was not an issue and that there, it was just like, we were all just people working together to try to build a great company.

And, I have felt the continuation of that at Vanta and I see that commonality between. Like Jeff and Christina, Christina is incredibly smart. One of the smartest people I've ever met. She's a first principles thinker. She's just incredibly ethical and intellectually honest. And she puts 100 percent of herself into what she's building.

And I think the beauty of [00:09:00] leaders like her. Or that there's just no ego in any of it. It is like pure passion and pure drive and just a desire to do something great at, to build something great, to serve our customers in a special way. Like the real passion for the work is so genuine. And that's where like, I experienced some of that, like passion for the work early days, but there were so many, there were so many weird like feelings and like personal vendettas. And there was all this drama and the politics and the irony is like here later in my career, working for this incredible female CEO, it is the literal opposite of that. There aren't really politics and all the drama and the feelings. It is actually an incredibly rational environment focused on just doing something incredible.

And. I find it to be the most rewarding work of my career because it is so focused on what we're building and [00:10:00] we're all just like in it every day and there's all this like deep enthusiasm and drive and desire and we're not thinking about the rest of it. And that has been a truly incredible experience.

Tracy Young: I do think that's the best part about being able to build and run a company when you can just be productive and all in together on pushing this vision and this mission together. So tell me about Vanta's mission. Our mission is to secure the internet and protect consumer data. And it's a big mission.

Stevie Case: We are certainly most known for our original product line and the tagline compliance that doesn't suck too much. The pun at the heart of that was about helping founders and startups to become SOC 2 compliant. And that journey started for Christina. She was a product manager. At Dropbox. She was a part of building Dropbox paper and bringing that product to market.

And she encountered this [00:11:00] process of trying to figure out how to become SOC 2 compliant as a product person. And it came because she was trying to bring paper to market and. The legal team eventually came knocking and was like, hello, excuse me. Why are you giving this non compliant product to our customers who are on contracts that require SOC 2?

And she was like, I'm sorry, what is SOC 2? And she had to, go Google what it was. And she ended up having to go through that process of a SOC 2 audit. And through learning that really felt the pain and how. As an innovative builder to be subject to this incredibly manual, incredibly backwards way of verifying that a product was compliant and secure.

It just was so mind blowing to her and the way it blocks innovation was notable, we're here building are in Silicon Valley building these incredibly innovative products. And you're in your AWS instance, like screenshotting your config settings to show that you've got two factor auth on and like [00:12:00] sending that to an accountant somewhere.

So it just felt so disconnected. And that's what lead, let build the product. And, from there we have grown so much, obviously having just raised the series C we've had a huge amount of growth earlier this year. We announced we crossed a hundred million in ARR. It's been an incredible journey.

And what we've grown from is the company that helps founders with SOC two to a trust management platform. And our mission is to help companies to innovate. and to build in a way that is high trust and approve that trust with people who buy and use their software. You were the first CRO at Mantum and I would imagine there was a lot of greenfield in front of you but there's also a lot of older processes and an existing team that you inherited.

Tracy Young: What's your advice for CROs coming into a new role with, all this in front of them? Oh my gosh. When I eventually do this [00:13:00] again, hopefully I will do it 10 times better the next time. It is one of the hardest things I've ever done to walk into this. And there's not really a CRO playbook.

Stevie Case: There's no real CRO school, so you show up and lots of people give you advice, but the advice is very generic. But honestly, what I would. Advise a new CRO to do is one. deeply respect the business in its current form and what works about that business and what makes your team unique. I, it's easy to come in and say, Oh, like I know what good looks like and discard everything that's working about what is there.

And that is almost always a mistake. So get a handle on. What is good and what is working? Think about how you can truly leverage the talent you've got already on the team. I am so lucky in that, we had an original head of sales at Vanta. Emart, he's incredible. And. [00:14:00] He's somebody who has stuck with the business.

He now is like our internal business builder. He's our zero to one guy. So anytime I've got a new initiative, he's stuck with Manta and evolved. And now he helps me build new businesses and he helps with new initiatives and, finding ways that your team can help take this company into the future would be number one.

Number two is gotta be, it's all about data. One of the most common things you're walking into as a CRO is a situation that is unclear. Usually if someone is hiring a CRO, it's because they have encountered a challenge in some form. Whether that is like growth is stalled or there are new competitors on the market, or they're just not sure how they're going to keep scaling.

There's some challenge. It's very rare that you would walk into a new CRO role and everything's going great and they're like, yeah, just keep doing what you're doing. Like they're expecting you to make change. And the only way you can effectively make change is if you can deeply understand what's actually happening and [00:15:00] root cause why it's happening.

So getting your data infrastructure in place. So you can deeply measure the business and understand why it's doing what it's doing. Do not take decisive action until you've got that data infrastructure in place. Otherwise it is very easy to go wrong very quickly.

Tracy Young: I'm borrowing this from a CFO, but our, I remember our old board was so obsessive with looking at benchmarks.

And that's great, not all companies look alike and your own data quality is so important. And just understanding the trends of your business is like the number one foundational thing you have to do. You talked about making change, like understanding what's working, understanding not support, not what's not working and then making change.

Do you think there's a right time, coming in as the new CRO leader? Do you think there's like a certain amount of days that have to pass before you can start making change?

Stevie Case: No, is my honest answer. I [00:16:00] think that you've got to, you've got to trust your instincts. You've got to trust the data that you're receiving.

And there truly is no benchmark. I think that, best practice is move slowly with people, but quickly with setting priorities and getting to clarity. I had a mentor once my COO at Twilio and his guidance to me about coming into a new role, I thought was really salient. He had been the CMO and the COO at Salesforce, but when he was the CMO at Salesforce, it was literally the first marketing job he had ever had.

And I asked him, how do you even know what to do? Like you have never done marketing. You're given the CMO job, like how do you start? And his advice was. People like to understand what their priorities are. So give people clarity on what you want them to prioritize. You are absolutely going to get it wrong and that's okay.

You can iterate, but as long as you clearly articulate where you want [00:17:00] them focused. Everybody will relax and they'll start moving forward. So I like to think of the speed on setting priorities in a direction should be immediate. The movement on people should take more time and be a little more thoughtful so you can incorporate more data points and really be thoughtful with how you move your people around.

Tracy Young: You of course are talking about George Hu. He was our previous he was my old board director at my last company. I've met so many people and so many women that he has mentored over the years, and I just think he's one of these silent mentors that have just been really help shaping people's careers without anyone knowing.

Stevie Case: He really has mentored a lot of women. It was incredible, like the way that he supported my advancement, my education at Twilio. Like we connected early on in his tenure. He came on as the COO early days. The sales team was small and, I think we hit it off because [00:18:00] I was willing to take him into the field and just really give him full exposure to what the sales cycle looked like.

And we went on these customer tours where we drive all over LA and see five customers a day. We had all this windshield time. So we really got to know each other well. And. In that process, built a lot of trust and it was just, we never had that explicit discussion of will you mentor me or will you help me advance?

But it just as the trust built, it was clear that he was challenging me in the ways that was more driving me up the chain and like towards the C suite. And later in that, like in the later years together at Twilio, he would give me these missions. There was one point at which he was like, There's a very important meeting at Twilio that happens once a month.

You should figure out how to get yourself into that meeting. And turned out it was like the finance review of the business. I was a lowly VP and this was like an SVP and C suite only meeting. So he gave me this [00:19:00] very hard challenge and he'd send me off to do these things. So I found a way into the meeting and then I realized that's the place they were talking about the metrics that a CRO cares about.

And so that exposure like really drove me to get better. So he was incredible that way. He mentored another friend of mine Somya Srinagesh, who's over at Zillow now. And, I know at Salesforce, he was a huge mentor for their, the woman who became a chief people officer down the line. Like he, he really is the force behind a lot of very successful women.

Tracy Young: And he does it in a very quiet way. What I always loved about George was the clarity and complexity of his thinking and just fast processing. It would only take me, it took me like five minutes to explain to him what the problem was and he would have gotten in the first 20 seconds. And then just how direct he was at communicating.

Like I still strive to be able to talk like him because I think it just be a lot more effective and I would save a lot more time if I could [00:20:00] communicate the way he does. He's just got that clarity of thought. Yeah. And he understands what drives action and that really allows him to be a very direct communicator.

That's funny. I'm going to have to send this podcast over to George afterward after we publish it. All right. What are the go to market strategies that have been most effective for Vanta? Oh, okay. That's unique. And you talked about benchmarks and it's interesting because we are having a very active discussion about benchmarks right now.

Stevie Case: And the consensus we've come to is that yes, benchmarks clearly matter. Investors care about benchmarks, the market cares about benchmarks, but truly every business is so unique. So I have come to believe as a CRO that I have to have a point of view, a really well informed, but like strong point of view, and that my business is truly unique.

So while the benchmarks are important, it is okay to deviate from them. [00:21:00] As long as you can defend it and you've got a point of view as to why your business is different and it deviates. We have done a number of things over the last few years that some of them are very traditional. Some of them are a little more unique and cutting edge, but I would say the most important of all of those was the transformation of our sales force from a transactional selling machine to a value based selling machine.

And that is not an overnight transformation. We did a bunch of the typical things you do. We brought in force management, we implemented command to the message. We started down that path. We taught our sellers how to articulate value, how to do really deep discovery the core skills.

We have since taken it much further than that. And now we have our own internal value based framework. We've established a value engineering practice. Every one of our deals, the goal this year is that they all have a business case attached that [00:22:00] articulates the ROI in the customer's language in a way that makes sense to them.

And so that journey to teach a team over a couple of years, how to sell on value and our post sales team, how to articulate the value of the service that we're providing. That has really been the single most important transformation over the last two years.

Tracy Young: It is so hard to change people's muscle memory.

Especially for reps who have been successful. It is so hard to make them stop doing what they think is, has helped them find success as a rep. And I find that's the hardest part about sales enablement, which I think is the core of what's worked out for you guys, is making all your reps into the best reps.

Their enablement and just teaching them how to discover and making sure that they're selling the value of what Vanta actually offers each company. So congratulations on that. Cause that is really hard to do. We have, I've seen companies spend millions of [00:23:00] dollars and just ball flat because people are going to keep doing what they did yesterday that works.

Stevie Case: Yeah. And that is truly the curse of success. And when you've got a company that is just a rocket ship in a lot of ways, it is harder to drive transformation because to your point, there are things that are working for reps. Reps are hitting quota. People are doing really well. And it's very easy for the team then to assume if I just keep doing this, I should be able to continue to hit or exceed quota.

But the truth is the market changes, the competitive landscape changes. Because, and if you're trying to scale a company. Inevitably, as the team gets larger and you're trying to address more of the TAM, it is going to require a higher level of skill. That is the natural evolution of a go to market machine.

So you know, I've found really that it is about weaving that value based methodology into every fiber of the organization. [00:24:00] And it's about just sustained effort. You just have to keep at it. It is not a one time training. It is not a one time rollout. It is a radical change in how you operate your business every day.

Tracy Young: And then day to day behaviors just become part of the culture of the sales team. Let's switch our questions over to team culture. How do you think about building culture in your team? What behaviors do you want to encourage? What do you want to minimize?

Stevie Case: Yeah, so a rep on one of my teams at Twilio said something to me that really resonated one time and it seems very obvious, but to me it is a go to market truth, which is everybody loves to be on a winning team.

And at the heart of that, what I took away is that sense of being a part of a team and being a part of a team that is winning. Is the one thing that people really want to attach to. So as I'm building team culture, what I aspire to build [00:25:00] is a group of people that are celebrating each other, that are like outwardly focused on.

Who's at the top of the leaderboard? Who is doing the things we've asked them to do? Who we're working on developing the outbound muscle right now. Who's at the top of the outbound leaderboard? Celebrating those things that are key to our evolution, loudly and publicly and frequently. And it's a culture of high accountability because what you find is that when you've got a team where you've got top performers and people who are doing incredibly well, the easiest way to kill that is to tolerate people who are not doing what you've asked them to do and people who are not performing.

So being really clear about accountability and where the bar is and then holding to that without allowing for excuses. And of course you want to allow people time to develop. But you've got to put a clear framework around what's expected for your team. If you hold that bar high, you keep it consistent and you celebrate what great [00:26:00] looks like, you are inevitably going to develop a team who like gets joy from doing the right things and continuing down that path with a growth mindset.

Tracy Young: And you talked about developing a framework. How does that look like tactically? Is it written down somewhere and it's agreed upon by the team?

Stevie Case: Yeah. One example of that in our business would be, we started on the value based selling path and then we started developing the outbound muscle and, we went through a period, we were, we kept telling the team, you got to outbound, you got to outbound, we got to develop some outbound pipeline and like nothing happened. And this is very common. And so what we did at that point was, it we acknowledged that part of why it wasn't happening was that a lot of reps were actually hitting their number. So sure, I'll outbound, but it doesn't matter. I'm hitting quota. So why should I care? So they would ignore us.

We ended up developing this balanced performance scorecard. And the scorecard is a very simple leaderboard. We've got ours in [00:27:00] Tableau. And in that leaderboard, it is a combination of your ARR attainment. So pure dollars, which is what people are normally looking at. That's 50 percent of your score. The other 50 percent is five metrics that we think also matter.

And those were tied to the behaviors we were trying to develop. So it's a count of outbound opportunities generated. It is your win rate. It is your average contract value for your closed deals. So basically it was all the things we were asking reps to do, take your time and close larger, higher contract value deals, deliver outbound, all of those things then total up into a score.

And that's what drives the leaderboard. And it is a global leaderboard that we publish and we share with everyone. You can be at the top of that leaderboard by means other than just hitting your quota. You can be there because you're the person who did the most outbounding, [00:28:00] and ultimately what we find is those things correlate really tightly, and it's a really easy way to tell people that.

Tracy Young: Yeah, we totally agree with you at TigerEye. I one of the functionalities inside our product is baseball card. It's really cute. It's a little bit cheesy, but it's a, it's really easy for a manager to consume. And of course it's about percent attainment that's important for the company's top line, but it's also about all the stats and behaviors over time.

And Even if you're not at your number, maybe, I don't know, your territories aren't balanced enough, which we can also help with, but it's the behaviors of you're actually trying because you're improving on all of your stats across the board quarter over quarter. So we, I totally understand what you're saying there.

Stevie Case: I love that. That is the stuff that I think really moves the needle and helps people understand that next level down of where they need to be focused to continue to improve. I really like to put the focus on trajectory and what we're trying to develop is a growth mindset [00:29:00] and people who are willing to learn skills.

So folks on my team don't always have to be at the top of the leaderboard. They just have to show they're growing and getting better. And they're adopting the new things that we're trying to teach them. And that's exactly the kind of person that I want on my squad. Speaking of your squad, what are the profiles you like to recruit for that, that you think would make a great run. This is always a tough one. And I think it, it can be very business dependent. I always have a soft spot for the non traditional background and like that kind of entrepreneurial profile. I'm looking for people that have proven they have the hustle and they've got the drive and the desire.

To me, that is far more important than A proven resume with a bunch of logos on it or more traditional ways of proving you can sell. One of the best reps I hired at Twilio was a guy who had never sold software. He had sold printer [00:30:00] cartridges and like managed solutions for printer cartridges.

He ended up being phenomenal. And he had, when he had been in the ink business, he had sold to like large strategic accounts. It was all outbound. Like it was very hard. Sales job. But he proved he had that hustle and the creativity and that he could have great discovery conversation. So I love that kind of background.

These days I do think like across all of the teams I have built, I like to see a balance. I like to see a background that is maybe a little bit of time at a big company. A little bit of time at a small company, have seen different the, seeing the world through different lenses. I do think some kind of entrepreneurial experience is a huge green flag.

Whether you've started a business in your personal life, or you've been a founder or an entrepreneur in some sense, those folks. Always have so much drive and passion. So I view that as a [00:31:00] huge bonus. And really, I'm just looking for grit people that are willing to push people that have had to create something from scratch before, because those are the folks that are going to show up and try to learn it and they're going to do whatever it takes.

Tracy Young: I talked to another sales leader who also came from a non traditional sales background in acting, failed actor, and he likes to hire people who just couldn't make it in the performance business because they have gotten no so many times that their pain tolerance on getting a no on a sale is also very high.

And then they can also bring in the acting skills of just being like pleasant and happy on a call, especially on an outbound call, which is fun to hear about. I like that theory and I think it works. Trust in leaders can be made or broken when things get tough. How do you deal with the crisis?

Stevie Case: Yeah, look, crisis is inevitable in every business.

Things at some [00:32:00] point will become difficult and sometimes that is for reasons that are internal. Sometimes it's market dynamics. I've definitely faced challenging market dynamics. One of the, one of the tougher things that we faced in the space I'm in now is an extremely competitive landscape.

Christina, as our founder created this space, she created the automated compliance as a category and the product she built had such incredible product market set that we saw dozens of copycat competitors come on the market. We had to face a period of time where we had dozens of copycat competitors who came to market and said, Hey, our solution's the same.

It's just half the price or less. And that can create a very difficult dynamic where folks start to feel very concerned and it's like, how do we make quota? And it can create a bit of that sense of crisis. [00:33:00] And I think whether you're facing that kind of crisis or it's more, something internal or like a market change.

I find that the key is really just transparency and honesty. And the more, as a leader, you can own it, and truly just level with the people who work for you, the better things are going to turn out. At the end of the day, we're all just humans. People are showing up. This is their livelihood.

It's very Serious for the folks who work for you. And I think remembering that respecting it and just bringing honesty to the conversation is the best path forward. And sometimes you won't have the answer, but if you can plot out how you're thinking about solutions and what the next steps are.

Typically, you're going to get a little more grace and it allows you the time to really build a path to a solution. Stevie, I could talk to you for another two hours. It's late for you. So I'm going to ask you one last question. You are, you're a mom and you're a very [00:34:00] successful professional by all measures.

Tracy Young: !Can you give some advice and parting advice to the parents who are listening right now who are also, very ambitious and wanting to pursue a career? Either in the C suite or pursuing their way to the C suite.

Stevie Case: This one is very close to my heart. I've got a 20 year old daughter now, but I've been a single mom with full custody to her since she was three.

So I built my career as a single mom without a ton of support along the way, and I found that through that journey, the single most important thing was just focus on the road right under your feet, get too wrapped up in the future or the past. Or the complexity, it will overwhelm you because it is overwhelming.

There is always too much. There are always demands you can't meet and it is not possible to be perfect at all the things. So if you can really constrain your focus and really [00:35:00] seek to be in the moment. And while you're at work. Be at work and be in that moment and be passionate and be engaged and be in it.

And when you go home, focus on that road under your feet, be in that moment with your family, with your kids and really just truly embrace it. I have found that is a recipe for much more fulfillment and it allows me to just truly engage wherever I am. And let go of this idea of trying to find some perfect balance.

Or am I, questioning whether I'm doing the right thing. I'm going to do the best I can do in the moment I'm in. And I'm going to celebrate that.

Tracy Young: I'm so happy to hear you share that because that is our first core value. And I feel like that's my motto in life on just. You talk about finding balance.

I really don't think you can balance everything. You get overwhelmed. And the best we can do is just like you said, just this [00:36:00] moment right now, I am on a podcast interviewing Stevie Case, and I am not thinking about anything else. The team's got the company, someone else has got my responsible for my children, and I'm just here with you.

And then when we get off this call, I'm going to be back at work with my team and 100 percent there. And that's just the best we can do. Yeah. And I find it just brings the most joy because you can just truly enjoy that space that you're in. That's true. It's the moments. The joyful moments are right here happening right now, and they're so easy to miss.

But if you're fully there, you can find it easier. I love that advice. I loved talking to you, Stevie. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Stevie Case: Thank you for having me. This has been great.

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